General Pre-launch Discussion

[Rachel K]

from an e-mail w/ Rachel:

"Unfortunately with Christmas coming up we have solely been working on the V1 Puzzles eg: Seeing the engineers etc, so work on the Mercury’s have gone back on standby until these orders are out. "

nice that they are prioritizing new orders over those paid for 2+ years ago...

Hey guys,

This email makes it seem like we aren't going to proceed with the R2 series, what I meant was at this current moment in time we have been sorting out Christmas orders like getting the stock in through the engineers, platers and anodisers etc.

We did start manufacturing the last of the Mercury's and once they have gone out we will start on the others. Each puzzle takes time to manufacture and Chris is really trying to finish it off but it is a huge task which unfortunately has been delayed so long. We are sorry it's taken so long and unfortunately I've come in at the end of the year when it's our busiest time, but like i've said I will make sure these get finished as soon as possible as we do hate having outstanding orders

Thanks

Rachel

[ReVoMaster]

Dear All

I would like to point out that Rachel and I are working extremely hard to ensure that we remain in business and continue to supply our loyal customers who have been extremely patient due to a major mistake I have made in the past.

While doing everything I can to ensure we supply reliable and enjoyable puzzles around the world, this past indiscretion, where I promised things that were outside of my control and being let down by our previous suppliers with poor quality and bad delivery we have had to take a major hit to get back on track and feel we are making major steps in achieving that.

We now have a high quality engineering company who is dedicated to supplying us the very best engineering and at a known delivery point in time. This has been shown from the puzzles we are now supplying and in a position to supply without the long delays as from the past. SO I HAVE LEARNED!

Having said that I am sorting the production of the R2 and my aim is to NOT let people down who have put their faith in me. Rachel has come in and really cares about getting all back orders sorted as she too has put faith in what we are doing.

We have to stay in business to do that and yes we are creating new puzzles as per what our customers requested. It is my only work and we have our house tied up in this, so failure is not an option.

If you look at the work we have done and the collections people have acquired (like nos6074), the effort and personal sacrifice to my family, I am absolutely heart broken when frustration boils over on this forum and comments are made as they are extremely and deeply personal to me.

I know where I went wrong, Emma, Nicole, Joseph, Sophie and now Rachel have each been on the receiving end of the R2 fallout but only Rachel has put the time and effort to ensure I stay focused and to keep going. The situation with Sophie was very personal and deeply regrettable and without Rachel bringing such enthusiasm and commitment to the role my past would have engulfed me. She and I are now so committed to the future and to ensure all our customers have the products they have waited so long for and having more puzzles to entertain them.

For your information, we asked for a quote from the engineers and that came back at around £200 each. So the maths is simple - I screwed up! I know it, Rachel knows it but I am still going to complete them. It works out that I get £0.20 per hour for the time I spent on it but that is a price of my mistake.

It is now a case that I will do what I can to ensure people are happy. It is taking a serious toll but the many kind messages of support is the only reason we are still here.

So we have two new puzzles for people to enjoy. Both Rachel and I are looking forward to the future we have identified an income stream that we have sadly not had and is why we only survive on the kind support of our customers.

So to the people who are understandably annoyed with the announcement of new puzzles, this situation is simple we need to keep going so I can. But rest assured we are tackling the legacy and not becoming complacent to our customers feelings.

Rachel is on the case and she and I will take action and do whatever we need to do to keep Revomaze a success.

Regards

Chris

[prodigy]

For your information, we asked for a quote from the engineers and that came back at around £200 each. So the maths is simple - I screwed up! I know it, Rachel knows it but I am still going to complete them. It works out that I get £0.20 per hour for the time I spent on it but that is a price of my mistake.

I don't think this is ok. I hope that other users here will agree and that we can pay you more for the R2-puzzles. At least for us that has not pre-payed for the puzzles yet. So I can say that I want to pay the "correct" price for the R2 puzzles and you shouldn't work for £0.20 per hour. For the moment I feel that we will receive updates and and honest such and I am really glad for that. THANKS!

[BBloke]

I believe your level of commitment should never be up to question. The level of change in not just communication updates but the new web site, newsletter and increased tweets should be more than just praised. It should be enjoyed and understood that all signs for revomaze are whole-heartedly moving _everything_ in the right direction. Forward. All those things are inevitably going to make the both of you busier. My hats off to you for taking on such a challenge. Salt of the earth in my book.

It's a hard fact of life that when you are light on resources getting busy stretches those limits and just creates more work. For as long as I've been here there has only been 2 people at RevoHQ (a 3rd with Mrs Revomaze ) and what has been achieved and delivered just astounds me. I'm in awe.

Yes, I've been frustrated and a little annoyed but never felt let down. Knowing and understanding the situation helps stem those feelings and you've both shared enough over the last year.

The new R1's show me your not sitting back. You're pressing forward for the interest of us and the benefits it should bring you.

I'm like most. I don't have deep pockets but I do love the puzzles. I save what I can and only hope I have enough by the time something else comes out. Long may they continue. Pre-ordering is helping as it was with the R2's. It's no different from pledging to kickstarter or indiegogo.

As my Nan used to say. Gotta keep the wheels on the cart to keep moving. Always happy to grease the wheels and pay the right price. They are worth it.

Thank you for the update and personal response.

[vcif]

I feel for Chris and wish him all the success in the world for enriching my life with these wonderful puzzles.

That being said...

It is ironic that the very cause of this dilemma is the source of the most complaints on this forum- pre-$ales$

Besides the obvious pre-selling of Mercury and Venus, I would point out that Voyager Status itself is a pre-sale.

If these puzzles weren' t sold before they were made, there would be no problem.

Yesterday the price was 100, today it is 250. Don't like it? Don't buy it. No problem.

Unfortunately, making puzzles and then selling them has not been the business plan at Revomaze. Therefore, all of us serruptitious investors are tangled up in this mess.

Yet, the pre-sales continue even when the product is supposed to be delivered within 6 weeks.

[Kirk2000]

I always said many times that the puzzles if they were made in the US would cost over $750 each.. It's a good thing Chris doesn't have to heat treat the puzzles after the milling process. Sometimes you can only mill soft Aluminum such as 2024O and then heat treat it to t6 after the CNC machine is done with the blanks so you can save wear and tear on your milling tools. The cutting bits are not cheap. If he had to heat treat the puzzles they would cost $1000 each. I was a tooling inspector for 10 years and know the time required to produce even the smallest detail parts. When I found out that the bottom piece of the R2 took 8 hours to manufacture I knew then that the production costs were way off.. Oh, if Chris didn't offer the pre orders for the R2's and the Voyager status I don't think the R2's would have been produced at all.. I for one pre ordered all the R2's and can wait. If you don't support the person that makes the puzzles that fuel our hobby then we wouldn't have a hobby. Even though, I think that I should add the Revos to my WILL just in case I don't last till the end of production..

[AndrewParr]

Chris,

Thanks for the update. I can't speak for all of us, but I think I can speak for many of us: we're big boys and we're excited about our toys. AND we can wait for a quality product.

I can't imagine the stress you must be feeling, especially if you have your house riding on the success of Revomaze. You've brought an amazing product to life, and have given many of us hours and hours of happiness. I hope you can weather the tough times with good health and restful nights. =)

Andy

[darctangent]

Very well said!

[ReVoMaster]

I feel for Chris and wish him all the success in the world for enriching my life with these wonderful puzzles.

That being said...

It is ironic that the very cause of this dilemma is the source of the most complaints on this forum- pre-$ales$

Besides the obvious pre-selling of Mercury and Venus, I would point out that Voyager Status itself is a pre-sale.

If these puzzles weren' t sold before they were made, there would be no problem.

Yesterday the price was 100, today it is 250. Don't like it? Don't buy it. No problem.

Unfortunately, making puzzles and then selling them has not been the business plan at Revomaze. Therefore, all of us serruptitious investors are tangled up in this mess.

Yet, the pre-sales continue even when the product is supposed to be delivered within 6 weeks.

Just to clarify, Voyager Status was not a Pre-Order! It was a membership to join the R2 Group and get the puzzles. All of this was invested in equipment. Mercury was used to purchase material and to the costs to machine and anodize.

Since the R2 - we only take pre-order for a puzzle that has been made and can be delivered within a couple of weeks max (i.e. plating and assembling). Before this we have to pay a large amount up front to the engineers to ensure we have the material and production slot, then the plating that has to be paid up front as well as all the other parts like boxes etc.

Because we produce relatively low volume, we have to bare the main costs before approaching you all. Rachel and I have been planning a way to get an income stream to avoid this. We do not have investors like other companies, so rely on our clients that support us. Without them we would not be able make the Revomaze.

My post regarding the engineering quote is let you know I have to make them on the equipment I invested the R2 money on. If people think I took the money and took the family away on holiday or bought a new car, then you’re wrong. It has gone into setting up a small workshop so I can make the R2.

If a machine takes 1 hour to do 1 operation, you have to multiply that by 100 to give you an idea why this is taking so long. There is 75 operations on each R2 plus anodizing. There is the material cost as well.

So people will NOT be asked any extra cost as that is wrong too but it would be nice if I could get the engineers to make - for consistent quality on £200,000 machines that can do the jobs in a fraction of the time. It is a luxury I cannot afford, the end result is I am doing each on the equipment I invested in and WILL CONTINUE TO UNTIL MY OBLIGATIONS ARE MET.

Many people have understood this and I thank them from the bottom of my heart for being so patient but it is a painful lesson learned. I will write a book on this one day and the sheer pain we have gone through. I lost my very best friend over it ... you can work that out

To everyone who has said such kind things - it drives me on and I sincerly thank you. To the rest, I will continue until I have met my obligations as Rachel and I understand the situation.

Best

Chris

[vcif]

It is not clear where the "vacation and new car" idea from, but I never suggested that the money was spent on anything other than producing Revos and don't appreciate the implication that I did.

The other implication is that I don't support Revomaze or say kind words. I guess saying that the puzzles have enriched my life, wishing success, and purchasing every available puzzle is not enough.

If these implications were unintentional, then these things should not have been said in a direct response to me.


As far as the R2s are concerned and according to the numbers provided:

10 R2 types X 100 individual puzzles X 75 hrs per puzzle = 75,000 hrs = 10 years running the machine 20hrs per day

100GBP per puzzle X 1000 puzzles + 1000GBP pre-paid Voyager Status = 101,000GBP Total R2 Gross Revenue

10,100 GBP Total Gross Revenue per year for the R2s over this 10 year period

Clearly, this is an unsustainable price position.

For the record, I have no problem whatsoever if a price change is needed to allow the production of these puzzles and the continued existence of Revomaze.