Chris Pitt's Announcement (+ VaultMaze info)

[prodigy]

I just added the previous information here too so we have it in the same thread:

Additional info from Jaz and Chris:

Hi all !!!

Below I have attached a statement for you all to have a read of from Chris and the team !! It is to large to simply post on discord so it is the form of a PDF !! I hope that in light of reading this statement everything may become a little clearer for you all but if you do have any more questions we do plan on answering them in the future !!

I hope you all have a lovely weekend and had a lovely week !!

Jaz

Dear All

We have announced VAULTMAZE and the new website vaultmaze.uk

We knew when undertaking this project, people will form an opinion, which makes the puzzling community such an interesting place to be.

We announced recently that the REVOMAZE was coming to the end of its product lifecycle so wanted to come up with something new but at the same time, we needed to keep why people came to us.

Our issue is external production with varied market fluctuations making it difficult for us to place large orders for the engineers and sub-contractors needed to run cost-effectively. Also, feedback was mainly biased towards not having such complex mazes and keeping them cheaper and more regular.

So, we wanted a project that people can really get involved with. Instead of the usual complete maze, the approach was to build the maze while sharing the expensive components like the body and sleeve.

But to just give you the maze makes it too easy and will not have the same effect when you solve the maze blindly, that is the foundation of our success – in effect making it intriguing.

Let's look at the numbers from our announcement:

91 puzzles over 18 months total cost £2,700 to £4,500 depending on which you were going for.

That makes it £29.67 - £49.45 for each maze, which is much cheaper than the original REVOMAZE.

Why do we have three paths?

• We thought some would just like to solve the competition and have no interest in physically solving the maze. We call them puzzlers who only need the 546 RevoRings.

• Then there are our current users. These have varied interests at different levels of our puzzles. The majority like just to solve the mazes and have them more frequently.

• Finally, we know some of you enjoy the collecting path and enjoy the quality metal products we produce.

We wanted to find a way to be more regular in production while ensuring our customers have something to work on without the lengthy development phase and time to receive the goods. This was because we worked in a feast (something new) to Famine (trying to deliver) methodology.

So, to break this (because at times it really did not work) we wanted to plan the production, which is very limited for us as we have one main machine and bring as much as we can in-house.

Sharing the components like the Body and Sleeve saves on cost. But to give the user another task instead of just getting the whole maze, we sliced it up into 6 rings called the RevoRings.

We created the Sample Pack so people can see the whole maze and try it out. I was stunned by how challenging this was on its own, however, it did give you the full picture of what needed to be done. Hardly anybody realised this and focused on the overall cost.

So, the initial response was a great idea, then someone typed in the subscription times by the 18 months and came up with the high price and that was it for them – “Too Expensive”.

From there, some people did not read the website but formed an opinion they had to relay while some did read the website and started to understand but had questions), which is why we are answering this here:

• We are officially launching on the 1st of June 2023. This is an early access program and as such has benefits over waiting till the official launch. We hope to take positive feedback from the early bird customers, who invest in the product to refine and make it better for the launch and help make the overall project a success.

• The subscriptions are not legally binding and can be cancelled at any time (there is no locked-in as some have suggested). You will be able to buy the packs as you want (but not ahead of time) and can put the mazes together.

• If you want to do the competition, you only need the RevoRings. You do not need to buy them all but what you like instead. You only need one Revomazer Pack or/and one Tester Pack. The stand is only needed if you want to display the complete collection and it is totally up to you if you wish to create your own.

• For your information, the current time to manufacture the full set of rings is 72 hours. With the stands and end rings, this is very much higher.

• Just over 7.5% of the mazes have rings that maybe have duplicates with the majority 92.5% completing mazes within the VAULTMAZE. We have a very careful production plan per subscriber/customer to make this possible controlled by our new MRP software.

• To play with the maze, you do need a Start/End Pack to complete the maze however, the stand is totally optional for the collectors who can make their own.

• It has been emphasised that you need the Starter Pack which is the key to the whole code as well as establishing the quality of the product. People just thought they had to subscribe which is not the case.

• Some people will only want to get the complex puzzles we make, but this is by far the minority and respect that this might not be the puzzle for them. We understand this and hope in the future to bring out some complex puzzles, but having a team here, we need to support the majority due to limited resources.

• The people who want to have a subscription over 3 years instead of 18 months there is no problem as we will listen to find the best way forward for the launch.

So to conclude, the project was aimed at a wide audience and appreciate this might not be for everyone, but the community can get around talking to each other and have a real challenge they can undertake, with regular prizes to people who find the mazes first including certificates and coins, along with the VAULTMAZE opening (with a Special “First To Open” Certificate to the first person to find the solution) that will give you the option to win various prizes. Please let it be known once you have opened the VAULT, no more purchases are needed to get to the prizes.

The team has worked very hard since last year to create this project and realised they will need to adjust the final launch, which is why we have put up the early bird.

We will continue to listen to what you are saying and will refine the new website (which is much better than the old WordPress one) plus get to the stage where a proper understanding of the project through regular discussion and interactions including live blogs, podcasts and social media events including audience participation.

We hope you will read the website in more detail and if you have concerns, you can relay that to the VAULTMAZE Team who will be happy to listen to them.

In the meantime, we will be collating views and opinions and will discuss them during an event scheduled for the week starting 27th of March 2023. The team are also working on How To … videos and answering FAQ from the feedback.

Kindest Regards

Chris Pitt & the VAULTMAZE Team

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I think the VaultMaze could be a great product and fun challenge. Probably a lot of creativity with unexpected maze combinations, speed runs and collectors displaying all 91 Revomazes on the same shelf

I am curious about what Chris wrote:

VAULTMAZE does have another purpose with the rings. We were going to discuss this as we have created a new puzzle called the HEXDUKO. This is the foundation behind VAULTMAZE.

[prodigy]

Some interesting answers from Chris Pitt (on Discord) this morning that could be good to have here too (I have not included the questions but most of the answers will be understandable without them):

The R2 is going to be made to people who have waited and we have discussed that with the people who have these outstanding. I have the maze completed and are setting the machine to do the backs which is where the challenge is. The machine can work on 95mm while the backs are 100mm. Once this has been solved we can produce the outstanding R2.

Yes, we are working with the people to get this resolved so we can move on. The team are working on the new project and like last time when I did the Blue, people underestimated it. When putting the sample together, is not so straightforward, and when you have a pool of 30 rings, this will be much more of a challenge but people cannot see it because they have not had a go with the sample pack. What is surprising is people have formed an opinion on just how easy this will be and how much it would cost. If I put all 20 current REVOMAZE's out with the total cost instead of the Blue on its own, I would have expected the same response as to VAULTMAZE. Having every Ring is a choice not that you must have the entire 91 puzzles. There is much more to consider and while there is a final goal unlike the original where there were just 5 puzzles. We have listened to everyone for the past 15 years and this idea came from what people said.

It was not my intention to have the issue we have had with the R2 and it is still my PERSONAL goal to complete it, however, this time a team has been involved and learned from the mistakes from the past. We have been preparing VAULTMAZE since last year and they believe in the project.

That is easily done as the schedule is generated from a complex formula and I can remove the duplicates. Maybe I had Pokemon in mind, but that is why we are just early birds and we have a couple of months working with you guys (and ladies) before the official launch to get this right.

We know people really like the REVOMAZE. I too have an underlying affection for it - but after 15 years of telling the same explanation on a blind maze to a new person and that Rubik's Cube is sold Solved and you can see it etc. We want to bring the organising skills of the jigsaw puzzler into the mechanical puzzler world.

The issue is the sleeves. Our old engineer requires us to order 2,000 to get a price we can use. This is the same for most production shops. We can do the sleeve on our machine except for the big hole in the middle which will take a long time. You certainly do not have to do the competition but use your existing REVOMAZE skills to work out the maze, but when you have 30 rings this makes it such a challenge. Every time we put the sample together, it is not straightforward and that is with just 6 and the right rings for the maze.

The thing you like is the exploring and the dead-ends. The rings are so not obvious which maze they belong to and they do not just go together. You have to work on it like you are blind. Putting them together is just part of this because we have intentionally not told you everything. We wanted to get a reaction and be in a position of listening to concerns, which is important to us. I really understand where you are coming from but it is not that straightforward. We are not giving any clues as to where the rings go.

Once solved a maze, you can test it in the tester or REVOMAZE sleeve that has a retractable pin in case you get locked in because you have the wrong ring in the maze. You can use an existing Revomaze sleeve, but if something goes wrong, we would have to cut the sleeve off. You can still try to solve the maze blind using the clear tester by doing it under a table so you cannot see it. Having say 10 mazes, picking one random without seeing it and putting it into the sleeve, you may remember a couple, but not a larger number.

Ok, the postage. We have weighed the packs and Jazmin has been quoted via a courier and in some cases is £35 to the USA for example. Regarding the postage, we are nearly at cost and would love to ship for free but would not make anything from the manufacture of the rings. I really understand as I purchase from other countries and along with import tax an item that cost £35 ends up £70 with shipping. The need for the Sleeve is to try out and for that but is not nessecery to solve the maze, you need the start and end ring as well. The starter set is essential because it has the shaft to mount the ring on to test. You can use a pencil but believe me, you need to fix it into the right position as there are 6 slots.

If you want all 91 mazes. we were going to have a minimum of two mazes to be made from each 30-ring pack. This will be reviewed depending on what the demand is as we could raise this to 4 and then have 6 random rings. Random to you however as we will send out to a customer schedule so we know what you have and can make.

I wish you didn't have to pay for postage. To ship 18 boxes of 30 rings would be around 6KG. It would be much cheaper and we were planning the complete set at the end of the 18 months.

We will be producing 30 different start and 30 different end rings ...

The pictures are NOT of the final maze or rings or start and end rings. We are using a design used in the pictures that we can talk about and show. We have a journey regarding this maze that we will be discussing as it has insight into how we are going to do the actual maze designs.

As an advanced revomazer, you have solved a good number of the mazes. The high-end mazes like Silver, Lime and Salmon have over-tested many and some say are too difficult to be enjoyed. People like to just solve the maze, so while we have static mazes in VAULTMAZE, we hope each will bring a smile to the user by finding it, assembling it correctly then solving it for the first time. Which is why the Bkue is still enjoyed today.

I know this is actually a challenge to get right as the expectation is always so high with our customers. Rubic had the same issue when he brought out the Rubik's 360 which did not go down well with people. People don't like change too much but we have tried to keep to why people like the REVOMAZE and the engineering etc. What they are getting is still a maze they cannot see and hence they still have to work it out blind through trial and error. Once you have a complete maze, you still get the satisfaction that you have completed it.

At the moment it is two. We could go to 4 that way people have more to work out and get each time making it more cost-effective for them. Yes, the total is 546 (91 x 6). When we say random, to you guys yes, to us we are in total control of what we are sending. This has been achieved by setting up unique customer shipping profiles so we know what has been sent in case of lost packages for example, but also what they have and what is left. I agree with you that having rings from the last 18th package on the first box is unfair.

I know what you are saying and everyone is different, but the challenge is to solve the maze and in each maze, there is only one solution from the pool of 546 rings. I really understand why you like the REVOMAZE that you are forced to solve it correctly and like that everyone is in the same boat, but I know someone who brought two using a third party and cut one open to find the maze so they can solve their one.

VAULTMAZE does have another purpose with the rings. We were going to discuss this as we have created a new puzzle called the HEXDUKO. This is the foundation behind VAULTMAZE. Before discussing this, we hope to get people interested in the project first and will be one of our live cast features.

As I said, we cannot please everyone, but we try to incorporate enough to bring people in. I went to a consumer panel of 20 consumers to pitch REVOMAZE. The initial reaction was like this, difficult and comments like "this does not interest me". After trying (why they were there) everyone gave 100% on the puzzle as they found it really did interest them. But I must appreciate not everything will please everyone and why we feel it is essential to try the "STARTER PACK" to see if it does work for them. The subscription was added to allow people a way to get regular amounts and that we can set production to produce that demand.

I know it is late (5:18am here), but we hope to continue to discuss this and continue to listen. Jazmin, Rachel, Masie and Joshua have worked so hard on this and know it is not a given anymore but something we need to work on to make it successful. I thank everyone on Discord for their time to put their views across which we really appreciate and we will work hard to meet expectations. We will keep in touch ..... Best for now - Chris Pitt

There is - but only to Level 3 (VAULTMAZE is to level 6). HEXDUKO is the behind the scenes and we will be discussing this more in the weeks to come. There are two versions of Level 3, Easy and Very Hard. Jazmin can vouch for that! We will keep you all informed...

One final point - we had anticipated group participation where individuals can collaborate. We are looking into how this could work for some of you. Just a thought!

There is a possibility for different materials. We have a 3D printed version of the parts in ABS and can do resin printing, but we are concentrating on a premium product. Later we are going to produce Plastic REVOMAZE to meet the mass market and this is being worked on behind the scenes. This is no secret but has always been intended and VAULTMAZE can go the same way. Just to let you know, the algorithm to regenerate a new version of VAULTMAZE will be used to create a new challenge that we can use to make the entire puzzle in one go once this one has been completed. Again another talking point later .... Chat later tomorrow.

[prodigy]

More information from Chris Pitt regarding the VaultMaze:

Good morning, Everyone ...
Thanks to all who communicated on here yesterday, I have been listening and answering concerns. I would like, however, to clarify a few things to help the situation and allow you an informed decision based on your questions.

1.) Firstly, many thanks for your feedback on Discord. The team and I have been listening carefully.

2.) The team are currently sorting current orders and these will continue to be processed by Jazmin and myself.

3.) Second, to all individuals regarding the R2 series and the few Collectors Set people, I am still personally committed to completing this and we are talking to the small group involved. None of the current team was originally a party to this and I am taking full responsibility. We are open to changing the R2 people to this project and will discuss directly if this is an option for them.

4.) Regarding “Duplicates”. Blame Pokémon as I was influenced by the trading aspect and thought it might be interesting but by the strong voice on here, it might be better not to. We will continue to listen and if this is a major concern this can and will be changed.

5.) Regarding what you can make from a set of 30 rings. When we say we will supply random RevoRings to you, we are fully in control of the distribution of RevoRings as each customer has a different delivery schedule. Our idea was to have 2 mazes complete from the pack of 30 and then the rest of the RevoRings making more as you go along. This is a simple change as we have a parameter to go from 1 to all 5 generating the schedule of delivery. It may be suggested as 4 instead of 2 leaving 6 RevoRings that create a small pool where you to combine when you get more packs. This was not a ploy to get you to go to the end but just to mix it up each month.

6.) All 546 RevoRings are unique and have identification. This is to allow people to have a purpose and a goal – to open the Vault. We know this is not going to appeal to everyone but we have made the project as broad as we can to satisfy as many as we can.

7.) We are looking at the duration (18 months) and could double it. But we will listen to people as this may not be necessary.

8.) Subscriptions. We treat people who join the early bird’s programme as Investors. Without investors, we are unable to bring these puzzles to production. As a very small company, we have constant cashflow challenges as we have large amounts and then very little to work with. We wanted a way to have a predicted production to have a more regular income. This enables us to deliver on a regular schedule as each subscriber with have their own production plan consisting of multiple manufacturing orders (MO) generated by our MRP software. You must understand you can cancel a subscription at any time, but we wanted to keep a good discount if you continue.

9.) We will make packs available to buy as long as it is not ahead of schedule. That way you can buy as and when you can afford.

10.) You will need either the TESTER PACK or the REVOMAZE PACK along with a RING PACK and START/END PACK to make up and play with the maze. Once you have these, you only need the RING PACK AND START/END PACK to make up more and you can buy these when you want. There are 30 different start and 30 different end rings so there will be 3 of each (30 x 3 = 90) plus the STARTER PACK that has its own version of the start and end ring.

11.) We are looking for sponsors who can support the VAULTMAZE prizes. If I said there was a million-pound prize that would make the project much more appealing, but we are being realistic and would welcome prizes from sponsors. Suggestions here would help as there is a built-in real challenge outside of the REVOMAZE element.

12.) We will continue to listen and try to answer your concerns using video, livecast and blogs/podcasts. I have invested in the team for them to be creative and hope you will support their efforts. More information will come, and we will keep an active voice on Discord.

[prodigy]

I will continue with additional information here today from Chris Pitt:

I think we will sell the Drawbar, Certificate Bar, Maze Body and Nut as a pack for people who own a clear trainer. That goes for the people who have a spare REVOMAZE sleeve (but note if the maze is wrong you may have to replace it so would not recommend unless it is tested in a clear sleeve first).

The REVOMAZE is a blind maze you have to go around to open it and learn as you go by dexterity and feel. VAULTMAZE you have to put rings onto a shaft and turn them to fit using sight. Having the STARTER PACK allows you to do this knowing all the rings make up the maze. Then you can try it out using the TESTER or REVOMAZE PACK. Instead of using your hands and memory, the task is split into putting the ring on correctly using sight before trying to remember the maze using your hands and memory. When you get a pack of 30 rings the trial and error to find the correct rings goes up a lot.

Once assembled, in the clear or REVOMAZE sleeve, no problem. The REVOMAZE PACK contains a REVOMAZE sleeve with a retractable pin like on the trainer so you can release the maze at any time. They can help build the maze before trying for real. The only thing to mention, as we are machining these rings, they are a little sharp which we are minimising by platting them ourselves. Sounds like it could be good as a family thing.

The best thing about the Bronze is the mapping needed to work out how it works. This is a different challenge because you can see the rings but putting them together is more difficult (especially as there are 30 in a pack). Comparable with the high-end REVOMAZE, no! the Bronze and above will continue to challenge the serious puzzlers.

Would it be possible to pay the subscription without the shipping costs and after the 18 months we will get it in one shipment? So the collectors who don't want to participate in the prize hunt can get it for less shipping costs all at once after 18 months?

Yes, we can do that and have your package sent either at the end or in two smaller batches. We will keep the package up-to-date and at any time you can request it to be sent. Good idea!
Understand some of you will wait to hear from people and we totally understand that. Some will go for the SAMPLE PACK to give it a go before committing. No problem at all. We aim to ship all SAMPLE PACKS by end of April and the first RING PACK and END PACK and STAND PACK before the official LAUNCH DATE.

The aim is to build them, but in truth, you do have to solve them visually to make sure you are correct. Putting in a sleeve and not seeing it would be like the Blue solve it look at it and then try again knowing what you have. The best thing about this is the maze is on a cylinder and you cannot see the entire maze so unless you have a photographic memory, picking a maze up and trying it will still be a challenge. As stated, the whole thing is not needed unless you want to solve VAULTMAZE, you can get just a few and they are cheaper than the originals as you are sharing the parts. I just didn't want to make more and more REVOMAZES because we ran out of anodising colours and the amount we would need to sell to make production viable was becoming harder. This is new to keep you guys happy and attract new users.

It is the same for the REVOMAZE - once opened you are done. The only thing is you can do it again later. It's like watching a DVD film - see it and then say I have seen it so why have a copy? Putting together the rings is like doing a Jigsaw Puzzle (hence the similarity). once completed undo it and put it back in the box or try it out.

No, I am not claiming this is better or the same as the original REVOMAZES. I designed them both and my aim was to create a new puzzle people can talk about. But I did not want to deter from the original REVOMAZES but to make it compatible by understanding the maze designs. I am interested in your comment that the community exists to help people through specific mazes as I did not know you did this without spoilers. Both are journeys people can undertake so it's up to them to decide. But I do value what people are saying. I have the new BMW 440 where some people like it some people don't. The car is fantastic to drive and I don't mind how it looks. It's how I feel. It is the same for you guys, it's personal and I respect that.

Both I and the team appreciate your sentiment and we are trying. As they say, it is not going to fit everyone but there will be options in the future to make another REVOMAZE.

They are - believe me the designs will be challenging.

We are also going to ask a couple of guys to do the design of a maze each. We could open that to someone else as well.

To be honest here, it has been a challenge to get the REVOHQ team on-site as well. With their input, they strongly believe in the product now. We sat listening to the fallout yesterday and they realised it was the messaging - so next week armed with all your comments and concerns, they will be answering these as well from their perspective rather than mine. What sqwk above has said is right, we will be listening and applying where we can the comments raised by people who feel passionate about what we do and for us to get it right. Thank you all!

[prodigy]

Hi, can I ask if have you solved the Blue and then put it back together again to have another go? So seeing the maze after opening was a thrill and then you did it again no problem. Then leaving it for a few months you give it another go. Either you solve straight or like me drop down a couple of times. One puzzle is not hard to forget but many will be harder. The thrill in VAULTMAZE is the identification of the correct rings in the right place to make a maze. Yes, different. But remembering a cylinder maze is still a challenge. Rubik's Cube is sold in its solved state. If it was sold with a blindfold and jumbled it would not appeal but the puzzle is still a fantastic challenge.

We cannot replace the opening experience and totally understand your comment. You are right it will not be the same unless you are the first to open VAULTMAZE. That would be a big thrill.

I do find it a bit sad to see the main puzzles somewhat discontinued.

Not discontinued but awaiting a resurgence to allow us to be in a position to make them.

Do they have those identifications visible/engraved so the customer sees them?

Yes visible numbers. 001 to 546 and extra two digits (the start and end rings will have 01-30 while the sample pack will have the number 000 on the start/end ring).

The high-end REVOMAZE are where they are but each one became riskier as we add more elements where things go wrong. Don't get me wrong, I will be wanting another complex REVOMAZE, but not now as the company needs an income stream to support the development and develop the team.

Prices : Subscription Puzzler (£150) - Revomazer (£180) - Collector (£250). Earlybird is Puzzler (£135) Revomazer (£162) - Collector (£230). I will clarify

Only UK will pay VAT. I think if you log in your address determines if VAT is applied - else some import duty may apply as we have no control over local customs.

Thanks for all your feedback. Jazmin, Masie and I will have a meeting Monday to discuss this further. Have a great weekend. Best for now, Chris

We have put up the website and launched it as an early bird so we can refine it from the feedback before the launch in June. Duplicates - Gone, Trading - Not Required, 4 Puzzles from Pack 30 Rings instead of 2. Changing the wording to be clearer and have an FAQ page. We are listening. UK Postage - is a courier but can change to Royal Mail as an option that is much cheaper as would World options from Royal Mail after their ransomware issue. We are looking at the 18-month time and volume to see if we can improve. The prices we have shown are discounted before the 10% extra as it takes 6 hours just to produce the 30 rings. We need time to optimise and improve but without knowing the demand it is difficult. So the early birds were to allow us to get to a production point where we can sustain production.

How would you keep them assembled? You would ever only be able to have 1 at a time. You would need a new body for each.

As discussed before, this is another pack we can do and can be instead of the stand. The drawbar allows you to assemble the 6 rings. We can do that on its own in brass, to assemble the rings. I was planning that as we have the luxury ring box that can hold 30 rings (18 boxes required) or to hold 30 mazes (without the start and end rings).

We also have fidget spinner option! We are aiming at the ocd people who want it in alignment. It clicks as you turn each ring it can sit as a keyring.

[prodigy]

Here is the 91. 1 hex level 1, put 6 around it to make 7 level 2, put 12 round it to make 19 level 3, put 18 round it to make 37 level 4,put 24 round that to make 61 to level 5 and put 30 round that to make 91 level 6. Have I gone too far? The HEXDUKO goes to level 3 maybe as suggested that should have been the puzzle size contains 19 mazes.

Level 1 is the starter pack and even that is fun to do. But it seems this will not meet the expectation of the community. You have missed the direction and the legacy will kill the puzzle.

Further back in the conversation I have stated no duplicates or trading needed. What I was asking for as suggested to deliver level 3 and then extend if enjoyed?

What I hoped for was that you get the rings and it is blind until you put them together to form a maze. You are using your eyes instead of your mind.

The blind part is you can't see the maze but have a bunch of rings where some fit and some do not. once in the REVOMAZE sleeve, it's a revo. the difference is the journey to get there.

The number is 6 rings x 6 positions x 2 ring sides x 91 x 30 start x 30 end rings = 5,896,800 combinations. Thats if we go to level 6.

You do not see the maze - you see a pile of rings and discover the maze. One box holds 9000 permutations (6x6x2x5x5x5). I think it's harder than having 5 static revo puzzles. once you have solved a static revo, you can see the maze and re-do it. VAULTMAZE will not compete on the dynamic REVOS. And my plan was not to kill the revomaze but enhance it. Two journeys - one goal. Discover the maze.

I cannot take away the first time solve the Blue gave me and others. More mazes were added and some did and some did not enhance that experience. So hard to think of a way to keep the principle alive - but it has for 15 years. I will bring out more later as new people come along but once I did the Green, people just told me they can just solve any we produced because they had a mapping device. That created the first dynamic puzzle - the Bronze. That was a wow moment until Silver where it went too far losing many because it was too complex. So there is a balance - and trying to keep that has been so hard. I have such respect for all of you on here. To keep up with your passion has been such a challenge and honour but mistakes crept in and damaged the way we do things. I wanted stability and the ability to do this with minimal external manufacture and why the rings came about. I can see everyone's point of view and I think I have gone too far with 91 mazes so I think we should start with just 19 (level 3) to get the idea across - I can work that out as the principles are the same with fewer parts and Cheaper! It would be interesting if this would have been the same if I did VAULTMAZE and then REVOMAZE.

[prodigy]

I was thinking along the lines of 15 RevoRing's making two mazes and then 2 passing on to the next. If we reduce to Level 3 and have 19 mazes (1 is in the SAMPLE PACK) then 108 RevoRings would be 15 in June, July, August, September, October and November with 18 in December as the final pack. This would be much cheaper and we would see if people like the idea. So 2 packs would create 5 Mazes. This would half the cost over 1/3 the timeframe and you can stop after two packs and have 5 mazes.

Think of a jigsaw puzzle. You have pieces, and the lock together to form a picture. The pieces don't just connect to each other they must fit.

I feel like this is gonna require a felt bag for loose pieces and a tray for working on.

Correct for HEXDUKO but just a shaft from the essential STARTER PACK to fit the ring and rotate them to fit. Easy - When you have the 6 correct RevoRings bit tricky, having a pack of 15 or 30 not so much as many of the features on each RevoRing look the same but do not line up.

Stacking cohesive RevoRings makes the maze and the ring numbers help you to find the maze number. HEXDUKO you must find the centre number (maze number) of a group of rings by finding the surrounding ones that point to it. This is the puzzle and when you relate all the mazes, you have the VAULTCODE to VAULTMAZE. The original plan was to have 6 layers (Levels) but the HEXDUKO sample shows you the principle.

Don't get me wrong, If I explain everything does that not spoil the purpose of the puzzle? The question is simple, give me the centre numbers in the right places. That's the puzzle.

This is why we are launching the early bird so you can have an input. I am listening and taking note and we can adjust what we deliver.

Love it to be enamelled. but it is laser-cut acrylic sheet.

Vault lock representation where the completed mazes can be displayed together - each one will be a different height to give an effect. the tops of the caps have the maze number you have to position in the right place, take a picture and send it to us to verify and we will confirm. There are two ways to display, the HEXDUKO way or on this stand. You do not need it and can make your own so is up to you. All you need are the RevoRings.

This is why we had three types of subscriptions. People who wish to solve the code and are not interested to put the maze together, you guys who want to find the maze and then try it out and finally someone who wants to display the whole thing on the board.

It's up to you. Treat it as a 5 Revomazes core puzzle, get the shaft pack and run them in one of your sleeves, which is absolutely fine. The rest is for people who want to complete the whole adventure. That is up to them. I have tried to give a choice for existing as well as new people.

STARTER PACK to get the shaft and one maze and stand. Then having two RING PACK of 15 RevoRings and two START/END PACK will give you 5 more mazes. Thats it. We will produce a Shaft Body, Drawbar, Certificate Bar and Nut and call it an EXISTING REVOMAZE PACK so you can run a maze in your own sleeve thus not needing the SAMPLE PACK.

You cannot order them yet. The team is meeting tomorrow to discuss everything you have all said. We will change to make the process cheaper and shorter in duration. We have to work out if we are going to do two versions, the current one (6 levels) and the cheaper and simpler (3 levels) one. People who subscribe were getting it reduced so we need to work out what the implications of shorter runs will be. Also, we may scrap subscriptions and allow you to order as you go along.

I will fully answer later tomorrow once I have spoken to the team. Yes 19 mazes, one it’s the sample pack leaving 18. 6 months of 15 rings with 2 guaranteed puzzles each month with one extra puzzle every two months - June to November plus 1 final month December with 18 rings. That makes 18 mazes. There are 5 start/end rings each month as well. We will put this idea forward to the team and we will get back to you all. Best. Chris

In the uk it’s cheaper to send but they pay 20% VAT. Everyone else does not, but some pay import duty whereas USA under $1000 there is non. If I could afford it I would have the products everywhere in shops close by but that is not happening unfortunately. Weight and transport is a killer at the moment but we only charge £3 for all the packing and cost price from the couriers.

With this competition it’s in two parts. You need all the rings and even then have to work out the correct maze number and position. There’s no advantage to having them early. Jazmin has spent a lot of time but without a reference she is finding it very challenging. In space it’s the same thing you need a reference point to go from. Hope that helps as it’s been worked on a lot from my end to make it fair. We will go into this if we can get the project going. We will give the reference once all the rings are out and received. Hope this makes sense.

[prodigy]

Hello @everyone

I hope you all had lovely weekend!!

As Chris previously stated, we have all spent today reviewing VAULTMAZE and the potential changes we are going to make!
After discussing the options we have come to the decision to go with the L3 version rather the the original L6 alternative ! However, if the L3 version is well received, it’s something we plan on producing if the interest for it is there or something similar !!

Due to us proceeding with the L3 version , I can confirm the pricing for subscriptions etc. is going to be dramatically reduced as well as the length of subscriptions and competition completion will be reduced too!!

In the coming days, Chris will be issuing a open letter once we have officially worked everything out ! This will state precisely how we plan on moving forward and all the changes that have been made !!

We absolutely appreciate your discussion and feedback … we as a team truly believe in this new Journey and look forward ti bringing you on board too !!

In the meantime, please continue to discuss and we will be back in touch soon !! I hope you have a lovely week and rest of the day!!!

Jaz

[prodigy]

We have asked for a period of reflection and to come up with a new proposal. It seems like you prefer to continue without the sight of the product and pedalling speculation to confuse without allowing us to clarify the position. What you have taken the time to do is justify discord. We know this will not suit everyone, but while we have listened to the concerns and are taking time to compromise, it is not fair to justify and confirm your own position without all the facts.

Before putting that out, I listened to the concerns of the members and have discussed them with the team and agreed to a compromise. Also, some miscommunication was on the website. So the purpose of releasing the early bird to discord members was to get feedback and change before the official launch and ensure we have the correct information and a proposal that people understand. We will have this by the end of Wednesday.

We also believe this is the right route and we are proposing this along with ideas on how it can be developed once completed.

The issue is that there are not enough of you to sustain the business and develop complex individual puzzles. We are looking to expand to a newer audience so that they can get involved with the Revomaze family and in time let us invent more puzzles. Without a sustainable model, we are unable to bring the puzzles for sale.

As a team, we believe in the plan and it is our job to ensure its success to make the project enjoyable and entertaining. Without going into it there is a twist at the end for those who succeed. The team are creative and I believe in them.

[ReVoRabbit]

Great archive of what is going on.
I'm going we get more good info today, as promised.