-Update from Revo HQ-

General announcements
CPLR
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Re: -Update from Revo HQ-

Post by CPLR » Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:43 pm

I wasn't even aware of Revomaze back then, but when the Orange was produced, was it sold as a limited edition, or as a limited run? That has certainly been my impression. I recently paid a premium for an Orange because of this. Now that it appears that they might be produced again, I cannot imagine myself paying a premium again for any purportedly special edition Revomazes, whether directly from Revomaze or secondhand. Couple this with the significant production delays (years) people have been experiencing, along with with rare updates (which always seem to amount to, "sorry, not much longer..."), my impression of the company has soured quite a great deal.

They are great puzzles and well made. Nobody contests that. But the company needs to get it's head on straight and not make promises it cannot, or will not, keep.

AndrewParr
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Re: -Update from Revo HQ-

Post by AndrewParr » Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:56 am

+1
SOLVED: TI00008, BU2036, BR01862, Gunmetal, Copper #24601, IN00069

SOLVED AND SOLD - Black obsessions, red, green, orange, lime, silver, aqua, Mercury

ABANDONED AND SOLD - Gold and handmade

dasrevo
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Re: -Update from Revo HQ-

Post by dasrevo » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:17 am

I love these puzzles, this quality stuff is nowhere to be found elsewhere (afaik).
For me counts the fact I know we are dealing with a very very small team that only wants to deliver quality stuff and out of enthusiasm sometimes make promises they can't fulfill.
Human beings making this stuff very passionately instead of a big company that delivers rapidly 3D printed crap (my opinion about 3D printing and plastic in general).

So, I quite frankly simply ignore whatever is being promised and will patiently wait when puzzles are ready. When mailing with the people from Revomaze I really see and learn how passionate they are and willing to help out, so that is something I appreciate alot.

That does not take away the fact that I also believe people should be reimbursed if promises were made, that were not kept, that is also part of making mistakes: accepting them and the pain it takes (as in the costs of reimbursing). I myself would simply accept apologies, but i cant speak for others, i am only talking how i view things and how i deal with mistakes others make. If it was a big company, i would simply sue, but a small dedicated and passionate company? Never :-)
If you take any offense concerning my writings, be aware that I expressed my sole opinions and i am not telling you how you should handle the situations you are confronted with. Do what you like and be true to yourselves.

As for the limited/collector edition: I would vote for not having Iimited editions at all, I want everyone to enjoy these puzzles for as long as possible. What is the use of having a cupboard full of revomazes covered with dust and saying to your friends: "look, no one else has these!". Maybe you feel happy, other people who wanted to play with them instead dont. I am not a collector of physical stuff, i am a collector of experiences and i know the feeling you get when you open a revomaze, lets give everybody the possibility to experience this.
Collector editions I am for, although the puzzle mechanics should be the same. Something like special materials/finished/engravings, little booklet with company history and personal info about the inventor (for instance ;)), little gadgets, holographic stickers, mahogany, or a nice nutwood stand, those kind of things.

Just wanted to share my opinion, hopefully this will drive Chris and his team to keep on producing these excellent puzzles!
!=solved
?=in progress
Bronze! Gunmetal! Green! Titanium! Orange! Indigo Indigo SE (Bead blasted) Silver

mereacregrigore18
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Re: -Update from Revo HQ-

Post by mereacregrigore18 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:21 pm

dasrevo wrote:I love these puzzles, this quality stuff is nowhere to be found elsewhere (afaik).
For me counts the fact I know we are dealing with a very very small team that only wants to deliver quality stuff and out of enthusiasm sometimes make promises they can't fulfill.
Human beings making this stuff very passionately instead of a big company that delivers rapidly 3D printed crap (my opinion about 3D printing and plastic in general).

So, I quite frankly simply ignore whatever is being promised and will patiently wait when puzzles are ready. When mailing with the people from Revomaze I really see and learn how passionate they are and willing to help out, so that is something I appreciate alot.

That does not take away the fact that I also believe people should be reimbursed if promises were made, that were not kept, that is also part of making mistakes: accepting them and the pain it takes (as in the costs of reimbursing). I myself would simply accept apologies, but i cant speak for others, i am only talking how i view things and how i deal with mistakes others make. If it was a big company, i would simply sue, but a small dedicated and passionate company? Never :-)
If you take any offense concerning my writings, be aware that I expressed my sole opinions and i am not telling you how you should handle the situations you are confronted with. Do what you like and be true to yourselves.

As for the limited/collector edition: I would vote for not having Iimited editions at all, I want everyone to enjoy these puzzles for as long as possible. What is the use of having a cupboard full of revomazes covered with dust and saying to your friends: "look, no one else has these!". Maybe you feel happy, other people who wanted to play with them instead dont. I am not a collector of physical stuff, i am a collector of experiences and i know the feeling you get when you open a revomaze, lets give everybody the possibility to experience this.
Collector editions I am for, although the puzzle mechanics should be the same. Something like special materials/finished/engravings, little booklet with company history and personal info about the inventor (for instance ;)), little gadgets, holographic stickers, mahogany, or a nice nutwood stand, those kind of things.

Just wanted to share my opinion, hopefully this will drive Chris and his team to keep on producing these excellent puzzles!
Totally agree with you!!!
So true said!
Opened: Aqua, Blue, Blue Obs, Green, Green Obs, Bronze, Mint, Gunmetal, Titanium, Copper, Orange.
Looking for: Upcoming. Soon to be updated!

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ReVoMaster
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Re: -Update from Revo HQ-

Post by ReVoMaster » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:24 pm

Hi All

I understand everyone views and appreciate the feedback.

Small company's like ours are driven by our customers. They brought into the high quality puzzles I have stride to make.

However:

We have issues around the fact we have different classes of buyers:

1) Trophy Hunters (People who must solve all puzzles and have as trophies that have been conquored).

2) Collectors (People who like art or fine objects - whether solved or not, just like to display them. Being as unique as possible to make them short supply gaining value over time)

3) Competitors (people who either like to be first to open or fastest to open)

4) People who wish to supply a unique gift (for friends or family members who mean a lot, to spend high on a puzzle)

So we are trying to ensure we meet everyones expectations and admit I get caught up with the flow. The different demands make it difficult to ensure everyone is happy and is not helped by mistakes that are then used against us.

I make something and people want it. Some wish to continue their collections and even wish to keep to their own number engraved. Without the support of our core customers, we would not be in business. I will never underestimate this.

Not having limited or collectors edition would make it dull and people have been paying a lot for the puzzles second hand which is makes my original dream difficult as I would prefer people enjoyed owning and solving the Revomaze.

Demand and high prices go hand in hand but letting people down by me has to be addressed to have a consistent relationship between us and our clients. I absolutely understand what people have been saying and it is important to ensure get things right regarding anything that is "Special". Rest assured I am working on it!

Now we now know what we should have done as it has become very clear there are four types of sale:

1) Standard Production - Puzzles made as and when there is a demand with standard numbering

2) Collectors Edition - Puzzles with a change of finish or not standard production. These will have CE on them and may be made in multiple batches if demand is there. The number should be more than 100.

3) Limited Edition - Puzzles that are fixed in quantity with an undertaking there are to be no more made by the manufacture (us). These should be marked LE and are usually just 20 in number.

4) Special Edition - These are short runs of production puzzles and have SE at the end. We produced the first 12 puzzles with SE (Blue, Green, Bronze, Silver, Gold). This was extended into further puzzle designs.

But in hindsight, we should have followed this from the beginning, but outside my control, my original £50 puzzles are being traded by individuals for fast sums (>£5000).

I have no control how much people pay, so I would like to give my opinion.

The original Black metal has 20 puzzles sold by me for £50 each. I had and original prototype, Michael had the sign-off BK-00LE and the engineers had one for their display at the factory. I will guarantee no more V1 Blacks will ever be made. These will be valuable in the future.

The same goes for the recent Merc Black whereas I am making just 20. These differ as they have a Aqua Blasted finish over the shinny original Black. I will not make any more of these, guaranteed. They are all sold!

The Red has a run of 125 from our first engineers. They spent weeks programming it due to the heavy use of curves (rainbow). As demand is low, plus the programming is too complicated, we are never going to produce the Red again.

Purple! Two went to the competition winners, 10 to the lottery winners and Chris and Nigel for their work on the forum and was free. 6 puzzles were sold on commission making the total 20. I will NOT be making any more of these.

Handmade - these can be made to order. The mini is the same. Both are now rare requests.

Orange and Lime had a minimum run of 250 units. We have not been able to run them again as the designs are complex and require a large order number to cover the setup cost. This has now changed and we are making another 100 of each as there are many out there that are still collecting them. These have been out of production as we have not been in a position to get them made ourselves, or had the ability to commission our current engineers, but now can. We want to supply people wanting a large collection of different puzzles without ending up with poorly looked after or damaged versions second hand.

I totally agree these are to be played with - but I must balance this with the collectors.

Only one person can claim having the whole set and that person has the one and only "Revomaze 1". My first working Revomaze prototype.

So I have to respect Limited means Limited and will guarantee this on the Black, Merc Black, Purple.

I will not make the Gold or Red again. Too complex and costly to produce.

So here is what is available:

Standard Production (Regular Batches):

01) Aqua

02) Blue

03) Green

04) Bronze

05) Mint

Batch Production (Depending on demand batches will be made (min 50)

06) Copper

07) Indigo

08) Gunmetal

09) Orange

10) Lime

11) Titanium

12) Silver

Not Being Made again (Discontinued)

13) Red

14) Gold

Limited Edition (Fixed number that WILL NOT BE RE-RELEASED)

15) Original Black

16) Merc Black

17) Purple

Commissions

18) Handmade

19) Mini

Near Future Production

20) Salmon

I now have the blueprint on how we are doing puzzles in future from the feedback of our customers and it is important that all customer types are satisfied.

We are putting sets and puzzles on our website in the run up to Christmas, the stock is arriving from mid October.

In the meantime I am continuing to sort the Salmon and R2 puzzles.

The debate will go on I am sure, Bottom line, I want people to enjoy my puzzles as a great challenge and I wish supply as many out there who will enjoy them. I Will be more careful to ensure we do not say the wrong things and cause confusion, and if we are limited to ensure we stick to it when help keep everyone happy.

If you do have suggestions, I will be willing to listen to you, with some of the comments already posted are very constructive. I will do my best to listen and act.

Appreciate your help and continued support.

Kindest regards

Chris
ReVoMaster

Jm26rob
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Re: -Update from Revo HQ-

Post by Jm26rob » Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:17 pm

Thanks for taking the time to put such a detailed post together Chris.

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smiteo
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Re: -Update from Revo HQ-

Post by smiteo » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:04 pm

Chris, realistically should we hope to get Salmon this year?
OOOOOOOOOO? proud owner of set #29, BL09, R00009, OR00009, LM00009, HM-09 and BlackV2obs

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doc81
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Re: -Update from Revo HQ-

Post by doc81 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:29 pm

We all appreciate your reply Chris. If customers truly want to cling onto the "limited edition" terminology, you would also have to apply this to Black, Merc Black, Handmade, Red, Orange, Lime, Gunmetal and Copper as they are all labeled this under the forum board index. Titanium is the only one in the second section that's labelled CE. That's 10 (those listed + Gold and Purple) mazes that would be difficult to purchase. As a newcomer, I hope this community can rally around Chris and support his decisions which will only help this fan base grow as more mazes are produced!
SET SERIAL #7021
OPENED: AQUA - BLUE - GREEN - MINT - TITANIUM - BRONZE - MINI
CLOSED: COPPER - GUNMETAL - ORANGE - INDIGO - SILVER - HANDMADE

greenwolf86
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Re: -Update from Revo HQ-

Post by greenwolf86 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:32 pm

Chris,
Thanks you for the candid and decisive response to our concerns. I appreciate that you are trying to balance fairness and desires across multiple categories of Revomazers, and I particularly appreciate your admission that mistakes were made.
Sorry for venting on the forum instead of talking to you directly first. That was not respectful of the effort that you have put in and the work that you have done to support as many people as possible within the community. After reading your two responses, I understand your position and recognize that you were trying to indicate that the mazes in stock had limited current supply. You simply chose a word to say that which I interpreted differently than you meant it. I see the value of the aqua-blasting from a business perspective as a way to clear out imperfect stock and accomplish a finish that many, like myself, find even more attractive than the standard finish.
To that end, I would like to withdraw my previous post stating that the aqua-blasted finish be limited. I did not invest in them hoping to turn a profit in the future; I simply didn't want to miss out on something special. I like the finish and would love the opportunity to own other mazes with the same finish. Thinking that there may only be 3 green mazes ever aqua-blast finished seems impetuous given that even the most limited other mazes had at least 20 copies.
To my fellow aqua blasted set holders - I do not expect everyone to feel the same way, and I feel partially responsible for the situation as a result of my previous post. If there is compensation to be had which would change your minds and release the limited edition title on the aqua-blasted mazes back to Chris to reproduce for everyone, please contact me.
Thanks again, Chris, for everything that you do for our community.
I'm collecting unplated cores! Make me an offer if you are looking to part with any. Always looking for a black and a purple, too :?

CPLR
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Re: -Update from Revo HQ-

Post by CPLR » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:55 pm

I really appreciate the thorough update and clarity, Chris. It was the lack of clarity that caused me to spend hundreds more on a puzzle than was necessary--which I bought to play and not collect. I do not regret it because the puzzle is worth it to me. I only wish I had the correct information earlier.

I remain a huge fan of Revomaze and understand the competing interests you are balancing. For my part, I want you to produce as many puzzles as you can! It is notable that among the various issues raised here (including my earlier post), quality is never raised. Your puzzles are among the best across all categories in my opinion. I will continue to buy every new Revomaze that is offered.

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