REVOMAZE User Group

I am sure if you want to try a certain puzzle at any time, it will be up for sale again. Everyone here helps make revo feel like a real community, and I am sure you will get your day.

bluesign2k wrote:If Chris sold it as an obsession would you guys be happy? Indeed would those who have ordered a CE set be unhappy with this? That's the only route I can see that they would ever be made since Chris has said a number of time that he won't make them outside of the CE sets.

I'm pretty sure that everyone would rather have and extreme rather than an obsession but putting out an obsession like the black sounds fair. I just want to be able to add it to the collection I love to play with. I don't really care what form it's in. Just as long as it has a removable core! Am I right to assume that only static mazes can be made into obsessions for durability reasons?

Well I just tied the poll at 7 to 7. Can't understand why you don't want to sell more puzzles. I'd buy one if they were sold separately. FWIW, Star Wars got re-released sooo many times I can't believe that any one ever wanted the first boxed set in the first place.

Manifestjp wrote:Am I right to assume that only static mazes can be made into obsessions for durability reasons?

This is purely speculation . . . but. I think it has more to do with size, the obsessions are smaller. Plus quality of movement. For example, the Bronze might be possible, but the Silver would be unlikely unless it was a plastic/metal hybrid.

since i have purchased the CE i'd be upset if Chris changed his mind now. I'm a huge Tron fan and there are a lot of things i wanted and couldn't afford because i was saving for an auTi.

on the other hand, i surely understand that there are plenty of revo'ers out there, who like me, want to have the opportunity to solve every Revomaze.

I was kind of hoping Chris would come out with a Ti obsession for the rest of the revo family like yourself JP. since i doubt that will ever happen, there may be some owners who offer there's as part of the revo library. i know i did that with my black a ways back.

as for your point thayneq, this comes down to understanding and desiring to collect or not. to some, all objects should be usable or sell-able. to others, they just want to have a collection, and to others, they buy a limited edition so that after they finish playing, they can hopefully sell it to finance the purchase of multiple new revos.

we all have different purposes for doing what we do, and no one really needs to understand anyone's point or goal. sometimes it completely changes down the road.

and if Chris just wanted a bunch of money, i once saw a guy sell a puzzle for $10,000 (or maybe it was 10,000 GBP which makes it more like $15,000) because it was a one of a kind. and it sold too, it didn't matter that the friggin' thing didn't even work! there are plenty of Morocco princes that will hand guy like Chris a ton of money. that's not his point or purpose. there was a time when there were only a few forum members, and the black came out with a limit of 15, but then when interest jumped it was finalized at 20 so most all of us who wanted one could have one. as the forum grew and the next puzzle was released, Chris did the same thing. although the limit had been stated at 20, he raised it to 250 so that most everyone could have one. the orange is also limited, but Chris has left it open so that everyone can have one. just think about this, when we are buying series 6 puzzles, he cant hold all these puzzles from all these sets in stock. so they are all limited editions. the core set, might always be available.

while chris does always do the best he can to keep us happy, he needed to entice folks to buy the CE once he commited to making them. he did that by adding in the Ti. once he sold one set based off the promise that only CE owners could own a Ti. if he went back on his word he faced losing many customers.

I could say I bought the CE Au set for the nifty plating but that wouldn't be 100% truthful.

bluesign2k wrote:If it's sold as limited then it's being promised that that's as many as will ever be sold. If there's suddenly more of them then I've been lied to and there is no argument against that.

How has that lie damaged you in any way? The only way I can think of is resale value, but you said yourself you don't plan to resell them, so this point is invalid.

bluesign2k wrote: I'm not saying any Revo should be limited, but if that's the way it was sold then that's the way it should stay.

Ok, but why? Back this up with some data or evidence. The only argument I can think of again is resale. For which you already know my feelings there. Seems to me like limiting the number of puzzles Chris sells would only seek to limit the number of customers and therefore limit the bottom line. Considering these puzzles aren't lucrative the way sports cars are, I don't see the sustainability of this business model, thus I take offense to any model that doesn't allow Chris to continue making puzzles and making money.

bluesign2k wrote: I don't sell my puzzles so any argument about intrinsic value and resale is pretty irrelevant too. And yeh, having something that is one of a limited set does give me a warm fuzzy feeling about it, but only because it makes it feel a bit special, not because I get enjoyment out of knowing others would like one but don't have one.

This whole statement is contradictory. The only reason it is special, per your definition, is because no others have it, yet you claim that's not why it's valuable. Then if not for resale value, then the only thing left is intrinsic and sentimental value which is exactly the "special" you are referring to. So in this case, it should be just as special to you and it would be to all of the other revoers out there who never got one. Anything beyond this context is simply greed and selfishness, and certainly can't be what's best for Chris's business, nor his customers (again, unless revos sold for very lucrative amounts... and $10k is not nearly lucrative enough to be sustainable.)

bluesign2k wrote: If Chris sold it as an obsession would you guys be happy? Indeed would those who have ordered a CE set be unhappy with this? That's the only route I can see that they would ever be made since Chris has said a number of time that he won't make them outside of the CE sets.

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I'd buy both an obsession and an extreme, but of course I prefer the feel of metal to plastic. Chris can do whatever he wants. If he wants to make money, I'm willing to give it him. If instead he's willing only to make one puzzle and sell it on ebay for a few $k, then I can't stop him. Just seems like a huge missed opportunity to not only make some really good money, but also share a passion for designing puzzles with a much larger audience. I just think it's a broken business model to prevent people from willingly giving you money simply because the supply is constrained. There's no marketing needed. he's already got the sale. All he needs is the product

All of this is really making me consider just making my own puzzles and doing it the right way. I have a lot of experience with manufacturing and product design (for those of you who know me, you already be very familiar with the results of my experience). I wonder if I could hire Chris to be on my design team

ReVoRabbit wrote: we all have different purposes for doing what we do, and no one really needs to understand anyone's point or goal. sometimes it completely changes down the road.

Not saying we need to understand, but it's prudent for me to do so since I am affected by not being able to purchase a product I greatly desire. What you have described is simple human nature. We collect and hoard. It's a totally normal biological response.

So far, I'm in love with all of the revo's chris has made (except red and red obs), so I could care less if what I buy is the titanium, orange, lime, purple, yellow, whatever. I just can't buy anything right now because the product doesn't exist, or is in such a limited quantity that I can't. He claimed to really like the titanium design, so I'd love to purchase that puzzle. But I'm not going to re-purchase all of the other puzzles in order to do so. That's me voting with my dollars.

ReVoRabbit wrote: and if Chris just wanted a bunch of money, i once saw a guy sell a puzzle for $10,000 (or maybe it was 10,000 GBP which makes it more like $15,000) because it was a one of a kind. and it sold too, it didn't matter that the friggin' thing didn't even work!

That's your idea of "a bunch of money?" One puzzle for $10k is certainly a great return, but it is just as great as making a $100 return on 100 puzzles. In fact, I would argue the latter has greater return because you just got 99 more people to have direct hands-on access to your product. Those 99 people will certainly have a few other people, each, they will tell, and those in turn will drive larger and larger sales. The sucker who just bought one puzzle for 10k will simply stop purchasing once he has all 5-10 puzzles chris has to offer, limiting the potential return to a mere $50k. I don't know about you, but you can't even hire a single good engineer for a year on a $50k salary, let along cover production costs, marketing, investments, etc. Seems like a great way to lose money!

ReVoRabbit wrote: while chris does always do the best he can to keep us happy, he needed to entice folks to buy the CE once he commited to making them. he did that by adding in the Ti. once he sold one set based off the promise that only CE owners could own a Ti. if he went back on his word he faced losing many customers.

He wouldn't lose many customers. He would potentially upset the 11 people who bought collector's editions. But he would gain a whole bunch of new customers and make his other big spenders (like me, and everyone else who has all the puzzles but doesn't have a CE) very happy. Again, if he were selling extremely rare sports cars and could turn $100k each, this might be a different story, but you're a few orders of magnitude off from that...

I think some sort of rental service would be good. You pay a disposit, get the puzzle sent to you. You have to return it within 2 weeks or something or lose the disposit.

However I can see problems with that, and I would not really want to be a part of it.

Fabregas485 wrote:I think some sort of rental service would be good. You pay a disposit, get the puzzle sent to you. You have to return it within 2 weeks or something or lose the disposit.

However I can see problems with that, and I would not really want to be a part of it.

It's an idea, but not one I would partake in. Revos are too fragile for this to be sustainable. I would want one to keep for myself, and I'm willing to pay a fair price for it (or slightly higher than fair since these puzzles are amazing).